Two things. Let’s talk about a very easy mistake to make with lot sizes and then let’s look at pent-up demand right now.
LOT SIZE MISTAKES: I’ve seen it happen twice lately where Tax Records lists the lot size, but it’s actually incorrect. In one instance Realist showed the lot was five acres when in fact it was only two acres. In another example it said two acres when it was less than one. Yikes.
My advice? Thankfully most of the time we can trust the lot size in Tax Records, but it’s still a good idea to quickly double-check just to be sure. After all, listing the wrong lot size in MLS or an appraisal could lead to litigation, right? What we can do is view the plat map to see if there is anything abnormal as well as try to piece together the lot size (easy to do if it’s a rectangle). Also, when viewing a property in MLS we can click on “See Map” and then “Layers” to view the lot size. All I’m saying is taking an extra minute to do these steps is a good habit that can be a safeguard. How would you handle it though if the lot size was different in Tax Records, MLS, and the plat map? Which one are you going with? I’d love to hear your take in the comments.
NOTE: A land surveyor is going to be the definitive source. I’m just saying my advice above helps give us clues into when something is not right with a lot size.
Moving on to trends…
WEEKLY VIDEO: I’m really excited for this week’s video. On one hand it looks like the seasonal market has begun to crest, BUT it’s as if real estate has sped up a little after slowing down. Watch below (or here).
PENT-UP DEMAND: Check out these visuals to show some serious pent-up demand being expressed. For eleven weeks now the market has been rebounding after an initial dip when the pandemic began. And for five weeks in a row we’ve literally had MORE pending contracts than new listings in Sacramento.
VOLUME NO LONGER DOING THE LIMBO: A big trend we’ve been seeing is sales volume is starting to come back. In fact, this past week is only down about 10% from the same time last year. This is huge because a couple months ago we were consistently down 30-40%. The x-factor is having more pending contracts from 4-6 weeks ago finally starting to close.
LET’S WATCH THE COVID-19 NUMBERS: Unfortunately we’re starting to see COVID-19 cases tick up again in quite a few states. As it relates to real estate it’s going to be important to stay in touch with the psyche of buyers and sellers since a trend of more cases can shape whether people engage or sit out of the market. Moreover, it’s a wonder if different areas and states will have some form of lockdown again too.
ONE MORE THING: If you need some background noise, here’s a 30-minute Q&A I did with Rachel Adams Lee to talk about the Sacramento market. And yes, I mentioned my love for Breaking Bad and that I don’t like Downton Abbey (sorry). Enjoy if you wish.
Thanks for being here.
Questions: Have you ever seen that lot size mistake in Tax Records? What are you seeing in the market right now? I’d love to hear your take.
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Hey Ryan, good post as usual. I had a purchase appraisal last year where the county had the wrong lot size published. It was 5 acres but the plat map, which matched reality, was 10 acres. The listing agent, one of the best around, noticed the issue, filed a report with the county to correct the data error, and when we met at the property, pointed out the issue to me so I would value the property correctly.
This is really rare in my experience.
Thanks Joe. That’s a great catch. Kudos to that agent too. I wonder if you would have caught it had the agent not said something… I had a situation a couple years ago where I did NOT catch it. Thankfully the client was gracious and I went back and adjusted my appraisal based on a different lot size. Humble pie. Thankfully it’s rare, but after getting a call recently to work on a case where someone is being sued due to this issue, it seemed like a good PSA to put out there.
Yikes. That’s not something I’d want to face.
Totally! Over the last 20 years have had many properties I am appraising have different lots sizes stated in the MLS sheet, county records data, AgentFirstData, and the Assessors web site data. I went with what was on the plat map on every case. And in nearly every case the lender came back wanting me to change the site size to match what was in their docs that the title company pulled for loan. Frustrating,,,,ya!
So for the last 10 years or so in these instances I now simply toss a canned comment in there that states that the lot size is based on the physical plat map data and that multiple data sources indicate different data for the site size. This usually covers it and I hear nothing from the “review board” at the clients office. Moral of the story, CYA and trust the plat map and legal description.
Thank you Kevin. Excellent commentary. I appreciate you putting that out there. I agree too about giving the most weight to the plat map. I did that recently in an appraisal where the plat map had a smaller lot size than what the MLS map showed. Tax Records was off slightly too for whatever reason. In my report I explained why I used the smaller number based on the plat map.
Lenders always want a clean file. When I used to do lender work I recall an area of town where the city is clearly Rancho Cordova despite Tax Records stating Sacramento. My appraisal of course would say Rancho Cordova, but like clockwork every time the lender would ask me to change it to Sacramento in order to not make waves. Funny how that works…
Great tip, Kevin! Thanks!
I am quite surprised/thrilled there is a market and that it is flourishing. 43560sf to the acre; square root is approximately 208′. When I was cruising that was about three chains… Sometimes I have to recall what an acre is in order to verify on the ground. in 15 plus years have not found the Assessor to be in error.
Thanks Mark. That’s pretty solid data from experience. I find in most cases the number is accurate, but it’s that one time when it isn’t where we can get into trouble… I find taking an extra literal minute to double check the lot size is helpful and prudent. In my opinion if there is going to be an error it seems like it is most likely going to be found on a larger parcel. That’s my experience anyway for my local market.
This was a great video! You explained it so well and so objectively! Thanks Ryan!
Thank you sincerely Paula. I switched up my format in this video. I’ve been sharing lots of the same graphs with listings and pendings. It was nice to take a break and show some other stuff. It’s fascinating to consider weekly stats right now. There are so many moving parts right now. Let’s keep watching…
I turned in an appraisal yesterday for mediation where Realist and MLS listings stated the property was 2.0 acres but it ended up being 1.07 acres. The homeowners are now suing their agent and the listing agent involved in the transaction. The county GIS system has a tool to measure area that I’ll use in a pinch too. It’s not exact, but should be somewhat close. Especially in the foothills, a survey should always be recommended to the buyer. Very common for property lines and plat maps to be WAY off.
Thanks Brian. Interesting to hear the plat map is even off. I think this underscores knowing how it works in a local market. I’m not in the habit of GIS because I don’t cover your area. That’s a great tip though for those that do. Thanks as always.
When many of those properties in the foothills were split, some were “stepped-off” to save money on survey fees !!
Amazing. And sobering. Sounds like a situation ripe for disclaimers in an appraisal report (and for agents too).
Lyon Real Estate has a disclosure titled Square Footage and Lot Size Advisory and Disclosure. The listing agent prepares it with all square footage and lot size measurements known (MLS, tax records, appraisal, surveys, plans, etc…) that are known to the agent and sellers. It is provided to the buyers. It advises the buyer not to rely upon any advertised or disclosed measurements and to independently investigate same.
Interesting to hear. Thanks Jamie. I wonder how often this disclosure is used and whether other brokerages use something similar. I wonder if it is used in every case or just when it looks like there may be a discrepancy.
It is required in all transactions.
Thanks Jamie. Seems like a good idea.
Thanks for the update and the info on lot size! What can a buyer do if the size of the house was inaccurate? Have a friend asking because his refinance appraisal came in at 250 feet under what the appraisal from the purchase was
Hi Michael. Interesting to hear about the difference. I guess I would want to find out who is correct. Unless the lot size has changed since the original purchase, somebody is not right. I think if I were the owner I would look up official sources to help form my opinion. Keep in mind there could have been a change in data since the purchase also. When I look up older sales from about 20 years ago, for instance, the lot size is frequently slightly different between what we see in MLS and Tax Records. I wonder if data was somehow refreshed since that time or if methodologies changed for how properties were input into MLS? Something changed though.
I think the owner ought to understand what is happening here, but also consider if this difference is significant at all. If there is an error it’s prudent to correct that if it was simply a clerical mistake. But still the question remains. Does this matter at all for value? Would someone realistically pay more or less with this difference? Some battles are worth fighting and others are not.
Having worked in an assessor office and been great friends with the mapping department, I have found and had corrected too many errors to count.
Plat maps drawn in error by old mapping personnel. Plat maps NOT matching legal description, and boundaries in the flat out wrong place.
I have ZERO confidence in plat maps.
I ALWAYS put-see plat map and confirm with title documents.
All assessor offices have a disclaimer that plat maps are NOT for public use, for internal use only and are not to be relied on.
I have never had any pushback and will continue to never supply dimensions as I am not a surveyor and have seen soo many instances of wrong parcel lines that I will not bet my career on it.
ALSO-the plat line overlay on google as many of you know is almost always wrong or in the wrong place.
furthermore, I do NOT highlight or arrow or point out parcel on plat map having seen those errors too.
—————————–
-“see attached plat map”
-Please see title report, county records or other legal source of ownership information to determine easements or possible deed restrictions.
-“Plat maps are supplied by the assessors office and are for tax purposes only and are NOT to be used for defining parcel boundaries or other purposes. Specific parcel dimensions referenced from plat maps are subject to interpretation and may or may not be accurate compared to the actual deed of the property.
“Assessor’s Parcels are created by the Assessor solely to implement the administration of property tax laws for billing purposes only and have no necessary relationship to land use and should not be considered to be a legally created parcel for building purposes.”
Please refer to APN when referencing Plat map.”
Thank you Mark. So what source would you deem to be the definitive source? Whatever title says? Or a land surveyor? Couldn’t title be based on plat maps, public records…? This is where I guess it’s important to list the source of the lot size and have a disclaimer in the report. I don’t list dimensions, but personally I wouldn’t have a problem with that if a client asked. I would identify the source of the dimensions though and have a disclaimer.
It’s amazing how something so simple like the lot size can be so uncertain…
The definitive source is a surveyor or professional mapper who reads the entire legal description and draws it according to plan.
Mappers utilized CAD and found errors every time. some to the tune of feet, others to the tune of acres.
Plat maps are always supposed to be drawn from legal description which was supposed to be from survey. Legal can never come from plat map.
It is also RARE for dimensions to be published with any accuracy. Also-irregular lots often do not show angles and direction headings. In TX, assessor often doesnt even calc site size, they just list 2 dimensions(sometimes) and if the lot is irregular, those could be any 2 dimensions and not representative of the site size even closely.
I do include disclaimers-lots of them and assumptions that if proven to be false MAY affect appraisal outcome.
(and after working in assessor office-its not so amazing that they could be so wrong-I saw math errors in GLA calcs in longhand…often)
Okay, but what if the professional mapper makes a mistake… 🙂 I’m kidding. Thanks Mark. I appreciate your words here.
I had this instance last year, where after we closed the buyer called me and said “I think the neighbor is using about 1 ft of my land, throughout the entire right side of my lot. What do I do?” I recommended him to hire a surveyor, which it did cost close to 1,000.00. Is that solution the most cost efficient?
I don’t know of another way, so in my mind an owner has to bite the bullet if they want something definitive. I’ve had quite a few people through the years asking me to measure a lot and I simply say NO. That’s not in my wheelhouse.
In Oregon, we don’t see errors in the site size often, but we do often see other lots shown on the deed that can easily be overlooked in an appraisal if an appraiser doesn’t have access to the deed or the full legal description.
Thanks Gary.
I’m grateful to the appraiser that tipped me off on an error on living square feet during the inspection contingency period so my client didn’t overpay.
Assessor was wrong and appraiser caught it. Though it didn’t make a lot of difference in the property taxes.
That’s good to hear. Sometimes sellers can get so stuck on the contract price and they’re unwilling to budge even when a square footage discrepancy is unearthed. It sounds like there was some negotiation here, and that’s a good thing.
Perfect timing for your blog post, Ryan! I’m showing a halfplex this Saturday that I noticed the lot size was larger than usual for the area but hadn’t checked it. After reading your post I thought, “I bet that size listed in MLS is for both sides.” I checked and sure enough it is! (I let the listing agent know so he can correct it before he gets a buyer in contract & possibly a sticky situation.)
Thanks Beth. And great job pointing that out. I’m sure the agent appreciated it. That’s exactly what I’m talking about here. When something doesn’t feel right, let’s just poke around in a couple basic ways to see if we can glean some insight.
On your question about who to rely upon with lot size. What Type lot? With a platted subdivision I always recommend the plat map. The maker of this map is a civil engineer who has to put his engineering stamp on the plat to get it recorded in the County. A meets and bounds legal I used to use software to check this AND the Gov Survey size land legal you have to just read it backwards and grind it out. SW1/4 of the SW1/4 – hate ’em.
Worst ones are the French or Spanish or deeds where the land features/marks ARE ALL GONE!
Thanks Ed. I appreciate your commentary.
Thanks for the tip about layers to double check lot size. Tax records are not always accurate for bed and bath count, number of garages etc, so I will always trust the plat map over tax records.
The plat map is FROM tax records.
Same level of trust.
—————-
-from assessor web page;
“Assessor’s Parcels are created by the Assessor solely to implement the administration of property tax laws for billing purposes only and have no necessary relationship to land use and should not be considered to be a legally created parcel for building purposes[or other].”
Mark, I get what you are saying. But at some point we have to choose to trust something or piece together the best available information. I realize we cannot have a surveyor out to every property. I guess this is why I like the appraisal forms tend to list the source of the lot size. If anything this conversation can be a reminder to put a disclaimer about lot size in the report if there is not already one present.
What I’m advocating here is not a perfect system. I am saying it’s a really good idea to double-check though. When we simply export a lot size into a report without a couple extra clicks on the plat map or MLS map, we could be missing something.
You’re welcome. Yeah, it’s not a bad idea to just have a habit of double-checking. This very likely won’t be an issue with postage stamp lots, but once in a while there is something funky with a larger lot. Thankfully it’s still rare.
In Southern California, the actual dimensions are usually different, but very close to what Public Record reports. The reason is that they report in acres (ex 0.25 acres). A 100′ x 110′ lot will be reported as 10,890 sq ft (0.25 acres). If it is a rectangular or square, I use the plat map, otherwise “Irregular, see plat map”
Thanks Mark. I appreciate your thoughts as always.
Well I can certainly say this blog fired up the troops. Coming in late so will say great topic and thanks for waking me up early on a Friday.
I usually keep tabs on this lot size issue, but sometimes I can get into a rut and not go over the plat map. What does get my attention is when my Friends at Choice Valuation (Spark) present their discrepancy report between MLS and public records. That gets me to think “okay here we go again” and get into the plat map. As Mark Buhler indicated down here in the land of the beautiful people, me excluded, I see all sorts of crazy numbers. My fun item is when there was a lot line adjustment and the assessor hasn’t updated their public document or a four lot Parcel Map created from a larger parcel and the county requires the streets dedicated. So you end up with the Gross vs Net lot size issue. Sometimes and I know you will find this hard to believe, one size wants to tell me the gross size and the other wants the Net size. Hard to get any and all parties to understand the differences. Especially the owner of a larger corner lot with road dedications on two or three sides. Then the fur really flies.
On my rural properties I really do go over the plat map because their are way tooooo many things that can go wrong.
Little item for all to consider. When looking at a plat map and you see something that just doesn’t seem or feel right. Please don’t ignore it, ask questions. Last year I did a proposed construction after a land sale done two years prior (I was not hired on that land appraisal my fee was too high). Five acre lot with a little tiny 1700 sf rectangle box in the mid section of the site with its own APN. Did a larger parcel search and found out, yep the owner bought that little piece. So what the heck??? turns out after three phone calls to be an old well site for the gated community prior to public water arriving. So the next question was Dear Water District, did you vacate your easements. Answer of course was Yes. Prelim said hey wait a minute. (and Yes I asked the lender for the Prelim) and Yes that too lead to the world renowned, no other appraiser asks for a prelim, why you?? Oh brother.
Found no vacation of easements, so then when to Title Officer. They weren’t happy with my request for plotted easements. Two days later my mobile phone rings I pick up it is the TO saying Thank You Thank You, Thank You. Okay so now I am nervous. She said check you email. I did Plotted easements all over the site that Nobody caught on the prior land sale and you guessed it, the proposed building pad had a Utility easement running thru the middle of the site where they wanted to build the home. You can imagine how popular I was when the report hit the lender, even with a prior call telling them about the issue.
So yep, young Ryan is right check out the Plat and Yes thank you for waking me up on this again.
So Yea it is early this Friday AM but thanks for making me think before my coffee break. Wonder how the rest of this day will go now that you got me all fired up. As always enjoy your great posts. And yes I am working on getting my Ryan Jr. Graphs going. Y’all take good care and please be safe and healthy.
I love the commentary. Thank you Brad. There is a little fire in this topic. I think the big takeaway is to do just as you said though and follow-up. Digging a little deeper with a couple small extra steps is an extremely good idea in my mind. Great example too.
I always read the deed and double check the measurements against the plot plan.
Thanks Diana.
good topic: even in New York City, when lots can be 16×100- we not only check the plat map, we put it in the report. Too many times we see discrepancies, especially when lots are irregular. Very important to double check facts, specially in these prewar markets.
Thank you Maya.
Forty years ago when I was still selling houses, one of the properties in contract not only had the wrong dimensions but also the wrong legal description. The lawyer fixed everything, but what an embarrassment the property owner!
I always double-check and sometimes triple-check lot sizes and never rely on the local ML systems. Tax maps, too, are inadequate. However, if a lender assigns the work, I go to the lender for clarification; a title report prior to the appraisal assignment would be helpful, and I have started recommending that the lenders re-order their very own work. The title is a legally-researched document.
Rural properties often include more than one legal parcel, and I do nothing more if I find that to be true until I have a definition of the land assigned from the lender.
Good stuff Elizabeth. Thank you.
Per your original post, many times lot line adjustments are missed, but people rely too much on app gathered online property information.
Also map overlays online can be off significantly, often showing property lines going through homes.
Buyers need to check those prelims they sign off.
Thank you Jeff. I’m sure as a builder you’re especially diligent about lot size and boundaries.
Hey, Ryan, I’ve run into mistakes with lot sizes too. Usually, the most accurate lot area estimate is determined by getting the lot dimensions from the plat and calculating the size from it. If there are mistakes it can really mess up the analysis when calculating the price per square foot or price per acre. It really looks like your area has picked up after the initial lull but like you said we’ll need to keep an eye on things with this most recent spike in COVID-19 cases.
Thanks Tom. I appreciate it. Yeah, let’s keep watching. I just looked up your state also and it looks like there has been a spike there too. It doesn’t look dramatic. I’m so ready for all of this to be over…
For only the second time since I have been involved in the real estate business, the Assessor’s Tax Map and Assessor’s land areas diverge. In this case, the tax map indicates a site area of 0.95 acre while the records indicate only 0.32 acre. I have asked for the title report and will base the report on the assumption that the 0.32 acre area is correct; regardless, the data disagree.
The earlier instance discovered that the side-by-side lots had been switched, and quit claim deeds were required to straighten out the mess.
Oh wow, that’s a huge difference. While at the property did you get a sense of whether it was closer to an acre or 0.32 acres? That’s a glaring difference and I hope you get down to the bottom of it. I actually talked with an agent in my market yesterday about a listing that was advertised as 0.15 acres and it ended up being 0.33 acres. It’s wild how many stories there are like this.
It’s interesting seeing the ebs and flows of the market…demand is high, then another shelter in place slows it down. Then zillow partners with a builder to spark interest. Lots of opportunity out there waiting to be discovered! Interested to see what the fall & winter will bring.
Thanks Chris. Indeed. The market is always moving and there are different layers that are continually changing that affect what prices do (not to mention inventory, volume, consumer sentiment…).
I have sellers who purchased a house in 2021 where it was described as 2.12 acres for sale by owner and every county document available for review from plat maps/surveys (stamped with approval)/GIS/taxes all have said 2.12 acres. And they had to get a plot plan made for a large garage they have planned to build using their 2+ acre lot zoning requirements. The surveyor called and told them their lot is only 1.8 acres meaning the requirements for their construction of the garage would be significantly different. And now the county is trying to stop their build that they had checked every box for and spent thousands of dollars on. They are trying to figure out what they should do regarding this issue. I wonder if there are any suggestions or similar circumstances? The sellers also said the home will be their forever home if they can get this garage built, but if they can’t it won’t have enough space for their future needs down the road, so the .4 acre in value is also a problem for potential resale (in the disaster the county doesn’t let them build) and any paid taxes.
Hi Hannah. Thanks for reaching out. I’m so sorry to hear about this situation. That is so tough. Did the county require a survey? If so, that’s unfortunate because now they know the true size. This assumes the survey is correct, of course. If they didn’t require it, then maybe they think it’s 2.12 acres? I’m assuming the county knows the true size though if they are denying the construction based on the smaller size. It’s really outside of my expertise to offer suggestions here. I would certainly ask the county what can be done to help make the garage happen, if anything. Hopefully there is a remedy. It’s hard to imagine the difference between 1.8 acres and 2.12 acres would make much of a difference, but I get zoning code sometimes draws strict lines.